Magician's MMORPG Post

This topic contains 39 replies, has 2 voices, and was last updated by  magician2905 2 years, 2 months ago.

Viewing 10 posts - 31 through 40 (of 40 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #1386

    Snowpelt
    Keymaster

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts and sharing our game with your friends. We are hoping to get more details out soon, but at the moment I am literally pushing stuff as soon as we have it ironed out! The more input about design choices and larger community we can get early the better. We are hoping to have something playable for backers soon, but it’s still going to be a super early version! Showing at PAX has put us on a slightly more accelerated timeline for public viewing than we expected. The website alone has come a long way in the last week!

    #1387

    magician2905
    Participant

    Sorry for the “shout-ies”.

    Yeah, I see the changes coming online! Its cool.

    I have always felt that WoW and many other games are missing a trick with NOT having some sort of browser style game addon. I’m not advocating necessarily being able to log into your account from a Mobile device – there are too many risks – but perhaps some sort of gathering/follower addon-game which you log into, linked to your game account, and which every few hours (4-8) you can send followers off on missions to gather mats, maybe fight a mob or two. Just something to keep people coming back to the game. Browser based probably best as then it will run across platforms more easily. Perhaps even a mix of “Card Combat” (Hearthstone-esque). Then the fruits of those missions/fights are mailed to your in game character once every 24 hours. Doesn’t have to be essential to do this but a nice “draw” to players.

    Account Security
    No idea on how difficult or easy it is but would be very useful to have an ios/android log in security app for the game from the start.

    Anti Hacking
    Obviously you will require some sort of anti hacking utility for your game, whether internal or external (3rd party).
    Trion with ArcheAge uses the most useless available (due to XL Games) Ahnlab “Hackshield Pro” – its terrible and doesnt work AT ALL so one to avoid (plus I know at least 2 people that Hackshield caused BSOD on Win 8.1 preventing them from playing the game at all).
    This article is more than skewed – its so easy to download hack “tools” for AA its ridiculous. And whilst, yes, it might only be a small % of players cheating, the affect on the game due to the requirements of owning land or being able to simply “teleport” to crafting “hand in stations” is such that it DOES have a DRAMATIC impact on the game.
    The other major sin that AAge (and XL games) committed was allowing Client Side services for important components of the game allowing for packet injection cheats etc.
    http://www.engadget.com/2014/10/07/trion-explains-why-archeage-uses-hackshield/
    There was one mentioned on the Russian forums that they simply gave up on, but tbh can’t recall the name of it.

    #1388

    magician2905
    Participant

    Here’s a different take on Talent Builds from The Secret World
    http://www.drakkashi.com/secretworld/
    http://www.tentonhammer.com/tsw/guides/the-ability-wheel

    Could work well with an Archetype Class System with sub types within the archetype.
    So you could have 1 wheel per class – Warrior/Mage/Rogue/Cleric and within those wheel the abilities and Specialisations on the rings further out.
    If you wanted to allow multi-classing you would simply gain access to a complete new wheel for that Archetype class and as you gain levels/skill points you can decide whether to add points into that new ring, or continue with the existing ring, or a mix of both.
    Probably a good idea to allow say a maximum of 3 different Archtypes per character.
    Even with only 4 Archtypes and say 4 Specialisations this would create a pretty complex mix of available builds.
    Assuming something like a level 50 cap you would only have enough skill points to max out in 1 Archetype Ring, with 2 steps in a 2nd Archtype Ring (so choice at start, new ring @ 10/20/30/40 or 3+1+1, 5+0+0, 4+1 etc).
    Post cap, eg lvl 50, the character goes into something like the Champion System (ESO), Planar Attunement (Rift) or Path of Exile System.
    Dungeons/Raids
    I’m a firm believer in variety.
    WoW’s/Rifts and many other MMO’s system of static encounters within dungeons can’t help but get old.
    Introducing Expert/Heroic mechanics only goes so far to mitigate this and usually the rewards become deprecated after a time.
    If your serious about making Crafting an Integral part of the game and not an after thought its far better, imho, to have the bosses drop crafting mats rather than RNG loot, which may or may not be applicable to your character.
    Additionally whilst enhanced mechanics for bosses etc in Experts/Heroics do help, they also become quite stagnant after you have run the instance 10-15+ times onwards.
    Personally i disliked the way Wildstar implemented the “Telegraph” system for Boss mechanics. And prefer the WoW/Rift vein of short times to avoid mechanics. I also like the elements of player input, so taking control of things to mitigate boss mechanics.
    My all time favourite was Asheron’s Call that on some raids required the group to split up into 2 or 3 groups and, for example, head off down different directions to open doors and such for the opposite group to progress, eventually meeting up for the final boss in the dungeon/raid.
    Both WoW and Rift had this to some degree but it just didn’t feel the same somehow, whether that’s my memory or not I cant really say. I think i recall WoW had one raid which which required 2 x groups to open doors separately whereas Rift definitely had raid mechanics requiring groups to head into different parts of the encounter (usually when the boss was actually 2 bosses, or perhaps they split from being 1 boss into 2 bosses).
    Heres a video about WoW’s proving grounds (pre-requisite to enter Expert/Heroic Dungeon Finder and Raid Finder)

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by  magician2905.
    #1390

    magician2905
    Participant

    Combat Resource/Ability Points
    TSW also had a fairly nice take on combat resources, ie Mana/Rage/Energy etc.

    So as you can see all abilities are instant use AS LONG AS you have the required amount of “resource points” to use them – so typically Finishers required 4-5 points.
    This sort of system has a couple of ancillary benefits:

    • 1) All classes use the same resource so there are no disparities, such as exists between Caster Classes (cast time) and Hunters (instant cast) in WoW (which is REALLY frustrating, unless your playing a Hunter……..)
    • 2) Makes balancing skills very easy

    The only thing i felt they got wrong in that system was that the resources were attached to the mobs, and should have been attached to the player. With a “resource decay” over time preventing you from running around with 5 points and opening with a finisher.
    You could have 2 pools of combat resources

    • 1) Offensive abilities
    • 2) Defensive abilities/Heals
    • 3) Or some sort of combination that makes sense for your game.
    • A) Offensive Resources GROW/INCREASE as you use skills/abilities.
    • B) Defensive/Heals Resources DECREASE/REDUCE as you use skills/abilities.

    Tweaking the total number of resources available, ie. from 5 to 10, would allow you to make balance changes more easily and effectively.

    • i) If an offensive skill was found to be overpowered you could simply move up the number of resource requirements – meaning that it took longer to get to a particular resource level to use it.
    • ii) If a defensive/heal skill you would do the same meaning that it could be cast less often and you would have to wait longer to get to a resource level where you could use that same ability again.
    #1410

    magician2905
    Participant

    Warrior Tree

    #1411

    Snowpelt
    Keymaster

    I spent a fair amount of time in TSW. While I never made it to raid content I did find the diversity of the skill tree to be very fun. Although I often found myself taking skills to unlock an outfit!

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by  Snowpelt.
    #1413

    magician2905
    Participant

    Yeah i enjoyed TSW quite a lot. I think the raid content was harmed by the lack of the dedicated “healer” type class. I’ve never found much success with those types of games that try and do away with Tank/Dps/Heal.
    I felt that they suffered from some balance issues, where i think pretty much all went for 2Handed Hammer build with variations off of that…….
    But all that being said it was a quite robust system.
    I experienced limitations, due to software, in creating the “Segments”.
    What I was thinking was along the lines of limiting selection to 2 active and 2 passive abilities in each ring. Which works better with only 3 active abilities after making a Specialisation choice.
    Warrior Tree

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by  magician2905.
    • This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by  magician2905.
    • This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by  magician2905.
    • This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by  magician2905.
    • This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by  magician2905.
    • This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by  magician2905.
    #1420

    magician2905
    Participant

    User Interface
    Every one has there own preferences – some like the mini map in the middle others like me prefer it top right.
    Having a system from the outset which allows for customisation is a requirement – ie unlocks (to move it around), scale sliders, action buttons which can be configured in variable rows/columns, even being able to choose whether your health is above or below your class resource bar.
    UI

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by  magician2905.
    • This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by  magician2905.
    #1424

    magician2905
    Participant

    Heres an easier to view link to the new ESO Champion System (its still in Beta though) – which removes the “pretty style”.
    http://teso.mmorpg-life.com/eso-skill-calculator/templar/

    #1447

    magician2905
    Participant

    I think im about done with suggestions.

    Just a couple more, one inspired from recent MMORPG.COM article on Echo Of Soul, the second, regarding combat styles, from Skyforge.

    Solo > Party > Small Raid > Full Raid —— Dungeons

    Kind of nice way to implement dungeons having multiple “tiers” allowing multiple combinations of player numbers to do instanced/dungeon content.

    Would be great if there was a way to scale the encounter so that FIXED numbers of players aren’t required. So for example 1 person could do the instance, but could also do it with 2/3/4/5 etc people……

    Combat Styles:
    What I am referring to is the combo style of combat mechanics. Its a typical Asian theme to have combat mechanics that give you combinations (from the old days of Street Fighter et al). Although i’m not a huge fan of this mechanic, I can see that implemented well it could/would allow for interesting game play/combat mechanics and allow for interesting synergies between classes to exist.

    That’s about it.

    I will watch the development of Utherous with interest, and, should i think of anything else will post the idea here.

    Good Luck with the project moving forward!

    Ps. Available for testing!!! 8-D

    Once more information is available and the project is in some kind of playable state its likely that I will drop some $$ for the game – will see how it develops!

  • Author
    Posts
  • #1386

    Snowpelt
    Keymaster
    • Offline

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts and sharing our game with your friends. We are hoping to get more details out soon, but at the moment I am literally pushing stuff as soon as we have it ironed out! The more input about design choices and larger community we can get early the better. We are hoping to have something playable for backers soon, but it’s still going to be a super early version! Showing at PAX has put us on a slightly more accelerated timeline for public viewing than we expected. The website alone has come a long way in the last week!

    #1387

    magician2905
    Participant
    • Offline

    Sorry for the “shout-ies”.

    Yeah, I see the changes coming online! Its cool.

    I have always felt that WoW and many other games are missing a trick with NOT having some sort of browser style game addon. I’m not advocating necessarily being able to log into your account from a Mobile device – there are too many risks – but perhaps some sort of gathering/follower addon-game which you log into, linked to your game account, and which every few hours (4-8) you can send followers off on missions to gather mats, maybe fight a mob or two. Just something to keep people coming back to the game. Browser based probably best as then it will run across platforms more easily. Perhaps even a mix of “Card Combat” (Hearthstone-esque). Then the fruits of those missions/fights are mailed to your in game character once every 24 hours. Doesn’t have to be essential to do this but a nice “draw” to players.

    Account Security
    No idea on how difficult or easy it is but would be very useful to have an ios/android log in security app for the game from the start.

    Anti Hacking
    Obviously you will require some sort of anti hacking utility for your game, whether internal or external (3rd party).
    Trion with ArcheAge uses the most useless available (due to XL Games) Ahnlab “Hackshield Pro” – its terrible and doesnt work AT ALL so one to avoid (plus I know at least 2 people that Hackshield caused BSOD on Win 8.1 preventing them from playing the game at all).
    This article is more than skewed – its so easy to download hack “tools” for AA its ridiculous. And whilst, yes, it might only be a small % of players cheating, the affect on the game due to the requirements of owning land or being able to simply “teleport” to crafting “hand in stations” is such that it DOES have a DRAMATIC impact on the game.
    The other major sin that AAge (and XL games) committed was allowing Client Side services for important components of the game allowing for packet injection cheats etc.
    http://www.engadget.com/2014/10/07/trion-explains-why-archeage-uses-hackshield/
    There was one mentioned on the Russian forums that they simply gave up on, but tbh can’t recall the name of it.

    #1388

    magician2905
    Participant
    • Offline

    Here’s a different take on Talent Builds from The Secret World
    http://www.drakkashi.com/secretworld/
    http://www.tentonhammer.com/tsw/guides/the-ability-wheel

    Could work well with an Archetype Class System with sub types within the archetype.
    So you could have 1 wheel per class – Warrior/Mage/Rogue/Cleric and within those wheel the abilities and Specialisations on the rings further out.
    If you wanted to allow multi-classing you would simply gain access to a complete new wheel for that Archetype class and as you gain levels/skill points you can decide whether to add points into that new ring, or continue with the existing ring, or a mix of both.
    Probably a good idea to allow say a maximum of 3 different Archtypes per character.
    Even with only 4 Archtypes and say 4 Specialisations this would create a pretty complex mix of available builds.
    Assuming something like a level 50 cap you would only have enough skill points to max out in 1 Archetype Ring, with 2 steps in a 2nd Archtype Ring (so choice at start, new ring @ 10/20/30/40 or 3+1+1, 5+0+0, 4+1 etc).
    Post cap, eg lvl 50, the character goes into something like the Champion System (ESO), Planar Attunement (Rift) or Path of Exile System.
    Dungeons/Raids
    I’m a firm believer in variety.
    WoW’s/Rifts and many other MMO’s system of static encounters within dungeons can’t help but get old.
    Introducing Expert/Heroic mechanics only goes so far to mitigate this and usually the rewards become deprecated after a time.
    If your serious about making Crafting an Integral part of the game and not an after thought its far better, imho, to have the bosses drop crafting mats rather than RNG loot, which may or may not be applicable to your character.
    Additionally whilst enhanced mechanics for bosses etc in Experts/Heroics do help, they also become quite stagnant after you have run the instance 10-15+ times onwards.
    Personally i disliked the way Wildstar implemented the “Telegraph” system for Boss mechanics. And prefer the WoW/Rift vein of short times to avoid mechanics. I also like the elements of player input, so taking control of things to mitigate boss mechanics.
    My all time favourite was Asheron’s Call that on some raids required the group to split up into 2 or 3 groups and, for example, head off down different directions to open doors and such for the opposite group to progress, eventually meeting up for the final boss in the dungeon/raid.
    Both WoW and Rift had this to some degree but it just didn’t feel the same somehow, whether that’s my memory or not I cant really say. I think i recall WoW had one raid which which required 2 x groups to open doors separately whereas Rift definitely had raid mechanics requiring groups to head into different parts of the encounter (usually when the boss was actually 2 bosses, or perhaps they split from being 1 boss into 2 bosses).
    Heres a video about WoW’s proving grounds (pre-requisite to enter Expert/Heroic Dungeon Finder and Raid Finder)

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by  magician2905.
    #1390

    magician2905
    Participant
    • Offline

    Combat Resource/Ability Points
    TSW also had a fairly nice take on combat resources, ie Mana/Rage/Energy etc.

    So as you can see all abilities are instant use AS LONG AS you have the required amount of “resource points” to use them – so typically Finishers required 4-5 points.
    This sort of system has a couple of ancillary benefits:

    • 1) All classes use the same resource so there are no disparities, such as exists between Caster Classes (cast time) and Hunters (instant cast) in WoW (which is REALLY frustrating, unless your playing a Hunter……..)
    • 2) Makes balancing skills very easy

    The only thing i felt they got wrong in that system was that the resources were attached to the mobs, and should have been attached to the player. With a “resource decay” over time preventing you from running around with 5 points and opening with a finisher.
    You could have 2 pools of combat resources

    • 1) Offensive abilities
    • 2) Defensive abilities/Heals
    • 3) Or some sort of combination that makes sense for your game.
    • A) Offensive Resources GROW/INCREASE as you use skills/abilities.
    • B) Defensive/Heals Resources DECREASE/REDUCE as you use skills/abilities.

    Tweaking the total number of resources available, ie. from 5 to 10, would allow you to make balance changes more easily and effectively.

    • i) If an offensive skill was found to be overpowered you could simply move up the number of resource requirements – meaning that it took longer to get to a particular resource level to use it.
    • ii) If a defensive/heal skill you would do the same meaning that it could be cast less often and you would have to wait longer to get to a resource level where you could use that same ability again.
    #1410

    magician2905
    Participant
    • Offline

    Warrior Tree

    #1411

    Snowpelt
    Keymaster
    • Offline

    I spent a fair amount of time in TSW. While I never made it to raid content I did find the diversity of the skill tree to be very fun. Although I often found myself taking skills to unlock an outfit!

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by  Snowpelt.
    #1413

    magician2905
    Participant
    • Offline

    Yeah i enjoyed TSW quite a lot. I think the raid content was harmed by the lack of the dedicated “healer” type class. I’ve never found much success with those types of games that try and do away with Tank/Dps/Heal.
    I felt that they suffered from some balance issues, where i think pretty much all went for 2Handed Hammer build with variations off of that…….
    But all that being said it was a quite robust system.
    I experienced limitations, due to software, in creating the “Segments”.
    What I was thinking was along the lines of limiting selection to 2 active and 2 passive abilities in each ring. Which works better with only 3 active abilities after making a Specialisation choice.
    Warrior Tree

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by  magician2905.
    • This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by  magician2905.
    • This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by  magician2905.
    • This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by  magician2905.
    • This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by  magician2905.
    • This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by  magician2905.
    #1420

    magician2905
    Participant
    • Offline

    User Interface
    Every one has there own preferences – some like the mini map in the middle others like me prefer it top right.
    Having a system from the outset which allows for customisation is a requirement – ie unlocks (to move it around), scale sliders, action buttons which can be configured in variable rows/columns, even being able to choose whether your health is above or below your class resource bar.
    UI

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by  magician2905.
    • This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by  magician2905.
    #1424

    magician2905
    Participant
    • Offline

    Heres an easier to view link to the new ESO Champion System (its still in Beta though) – which removes the “pretty style”.
    http://teso.mmorpg-life.com/eso-skill-calculator/templar/

    #1447

    magician2905
    Participant
    • Offline

    I think im about done with suggestions.

    Just a couple more, one inspired from recent MMORPG.COM article on Echo Of Soul, the second, regarding combat styles, from Skyforge.

    Solo > Party > Small Raid > Full Raid —— Dungeons

    Kind of nice way to implement dungeons having multiple “tiers” allowing multiple combinations of player numbers to do instanced/dungeon content.

    Would be great if there was a way to scale the encounter so that FIXED numbers of players aren’t required. So for example 1 person could do the instance, but could also do it with 2/3/4/5 etc people……

    Combat Styles:
    What I am referring to is the combo style of combat mechanics. Its a typical Asian theme to have combat mechanics that give you combinations (from the old days of Street Fighter et al). Although i’m not a huge fan of this mechanic, I can see that implemented well it could/would allow for interesting game play/combat mechanics and allow for interesting synergies between classes to exist.

    That’s about it.

    I will watch the development of Utherous with interest, and, should i think of anything else will post the idea here.

    Good Luck with the project moving forward!

    Ps. Available for testing!!! 8-D

    Once more information is available and the project is in some kind of playable state its likely that I will drop some $$ for the game – will see how it develops!

Viewing 10 posts - 31 through 40 (of 40 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.